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Town costs

Discussion in 'Feedback/Suggestions' started by Taraborn, May 18, 2015.

  1. Taraborn Member

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    I don't know about other players, but to me it seems to easy to make a town, I am a good example of this, what seems to happen is players will join the server and a town, then spend a short while there getting materials and zenni, then leave to make their own town. This leaves the town with mostly inactive players living there which doesn't seem good for the towns.

    I don't know what others think but maybe we should introduce a cost for making a town
  2. ntall1 CCraft Team Admin

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    Towns are land protection before they are towns, and I feel all players should have easy access to land protection. That was the idea behind the original setup.

    I do agree that it would be better to have a starting cost for towns. If the server population was a bit higher, and there were more active mayors, I can easily see that being do-able.

    As an active player on the server, what do you feel would be a good cost for not only starting towns, but also upgrading them?
  3. linc7991 Master

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    The cost of starting a town should be accessible by one person. However, upgrading should definitively be something hard to obtain by one single person.
  4. Taraborn Member

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    What would we be upgrading out towns from and too?
    And I would say maybe between z20 and z50. It's a broad area, as I don't know what others think, but to me between those boundaries would be reasonable
  5. linc7991 Master

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    Well, I think if there were costs using /town claim should be free, but actually going from say "Village" to "Town" should cost money. Which would mean it would cost some money to obtain more plot claiming "points" when you do get your population high enough.
    If you would like an example, think about clan citadels in RuneScape(A game I think pretty much everyone knows). They require a certain amount of people and resources to upgrade. Except in this case, that resource would be Zenni.
  6. RabidGoldfishJ Member

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    If a player stays on all day, that player can earn a maximum of 50z. So a dedicated player can earn enough to make a nation in the current system in 4 days.
    That said, I think that 50z should be the minimum to start a town. As for new players, I see nothing wrong with them having to join an existing town in order to have land protection. This would encourage towns to grow and can even help the economy.
    Seven_Devils likes this.
  7. Lepuske Member

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    But not everyone wants to join a town, some enjoy being hermits just have a social group to talk with and that's why they join a server. It is only good to have no cost to start a town because restoring grief can take some time (finding a mod or waiting for your post to be noticed) and also ruins the mood.
  8. ninjacrumpet_uk Iron Supporter

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    I feel like there should be a time limit between leaving a town and starting your own instead to avoid the original point of this thread. If there were a few weeks between leaving and starting a town it will not only put inactive people off making a town it will also leave only the determined people to build one.
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  9. Seven_Devils Member

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    I believe that being a hermit and not participating in the huge portion of the server that is the towns/nations should come with some sort of real quantitative drawback. That drawback should be no protection. Being outside of a town makes it relatively easy to hide your base given how large the map is. There is chest protection so your items can't be stolen, beds for spawn points, and buying/selling is done through /gps rather than a physical building. That really only leaves the necessity to protect your builds, which I think that you should have to join a town to be able to do.

    Look at the map, for example. There are tons of inactive towns, 1 person towns with no development, 1 person inactive towns with no development, etc. That just makes it harder on active towns to expand. It also makes it harder for new towns to materialize in the future when these inactive towns on the map are taking up space that they shouldn't be taking up.


    Now for some actual numbers..

    Found/Claim a new town: 100z
    The reason I'm suggesting this to be so high is so that towns will either require one dedicated person, or multiple people to claim. Why should a player be able to join and automatically start a town? IMO they should need to hang out on the server for at least a few days, join an existing town, etc.

    Number of days as a member before claiming a new town: 7-14
    People should have to actually get to know the server a bit, join an existing town, and interact with others before founding their own town. Forcing people to do things seems wrong, but honestly people at times need a push in a certain direction. There is no realistic incentive to join an existing town over creating your own right now, and that's downright silly.

    Buying plots: 10z per plot, nonscaling.
    Honestly, being able to grab plots for free is nice, but it will cause massive amounts of Zenni inflation with high population, which in turn trivializes trading actual materials between players. Having the profession system coming into play (woodcutter/miner, etc) will make resources a bit more valuable, and with all that zenni prices will inflate to the point that new players won't be able to buy or sell. If we remove that Zenni more aggressively then prices will stay lower and everyone will benefit. This also has the effect of making it hard for a single hermit to create a massive town on their own(yes I know there are limits to the number of plots based on how many people are in your town, but if you join a large nation like Interra that's primarily negated), and encourages cooperation in a town, and thus interaction and makes people a little tighter and towns that much better.

    Now.. another problem is that there feels like there is no realistic reward for being in a large town. And honestly there isn't. So I think there needs to be some sort of quantitative bonus to being in a large town. Something that will actually drive people to want to be in a large town other than for protection (which honestly at the moment there isn't even need for) but what could those bonuses possibly be?

    I have a few ideas.

    1. Increased Zenni income scaling with the "size" of the town (settlement, hamlet, town, etc.) for each member. Nothing huge. If we're assuming 7z per hour is the current income. Then maybe increases of .25 per the size of the town.. coming out to the effect of..

    *Settlement: 7z/h
    *Hamlet 7.25z/h
    *Village 7.50z/h

    so on and so forth until the largest size is reached, and the income bonus is capped. This mimics the economy scaling of large cities in the simplest way possible. The exact numbers are of course an example, but if the bonus is too small it's negligible. But if it's too large then it creates imbalance in the economy and inflation. I feel it would require tweaking a few times to get right.

    2. "Better" furnaces. Why would a large town full of skilled craftsmen, miners, alchemists, and savvy businessmen be unable to come up with a more efficient furnace? Surely at some point one of the town's master craftsmen noticed a lot of room was going wasted in the furnace and an extra lump of ore could be cooked inside, or perhaps a lot of heat was escaping and could make the furnace more efficient in that sense, making things cook faster.

    What I propose here is if a furnace is placed on a plot inside of a town of X size, it either cooks faster or gains a second slot for cooking materials. Otherwise entirely vanilla behaviour. The "output" compartment will still have a max size of 64 (obviously) so players will have to either attach a hopper and chest to the furnace to collect, or pay attention to their furnace. This makes cooking large amounts of resources less tedious and require less furnaces to be physically placed (which is a trivial, quality of life change more than anything. It's not exactly difficult to create massive amounts of furnaces.)

    3. Better railways. If a town gets large enough, and with the recent re-addition of redstone torches and repeaters then railways are going to become favorable again. Why not increase the speed of the railways by adding a "move speed aura" from beacons to rails (with a range of 1 block) so that rail travel is faster? It would mimic better rail technology available to more civilized places. (this could even become a nation bonus.) This aura would of course only affect rails placed in a town of X size(or towns in X sized nation). Not in the wilderness.

    That is all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure I can come up with others later on. Let me know what you think.
  10. oogla SuperVIP

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    I disagree 100% with everything you said except for marginally faster Z accrual for people in larger towns. That I actually think is a good idea. Everything else feels to *me* like you are just wanting to force your idea of how people should play on the server on other people.

    So to make a counter point. I'm one of those "hermits" you seem to dislike so much. What I'm looking for in a server is pretty much the opposite of what you look for a server:

    - Some way to protect my base/builds from grief from the start with minimal maintenance hassles.
    - Some chat once in a while when I feel like chatting, the ability to mine/fish/whatever in peace when I don't.
    - Someone to maintain the world, keep up with changes and select and maintain the install of cool plugins so that I don't have to.
    - NOT to be a member of a large town and have to participate in all the other squabbling and "who stole my diamond horse armor?" and wars and all that other stuff I'm just flat out not interested in.

    CharlieCraft has scratched the itch pretty well for me over the past few years. The way it is now, I get to play the way I want with minimal fuss, and people that do want to participate in building elaborate cities with friends or use Minecraft as a glorified chat client can do so as well. Everyone wins, and in return I donate money when I can, which has added up to hundreds of dollars over the years. This is how I "participate in the server", by helping fund it when I can.

    If the server turns into some place where I'm penalized for playing the way I want to and not the way YOU want me to, well, suffice to say I would find that to be extremely disappointing. Fortunately ntall is a pretty smart cookie, and I am generally pleasantly surprised with the changes and improvements he makes.
  11. ninjacrumpet_uk Iron Supporter

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    I am one of those hermits and I choose participate by helping others when I can and I still contribute to the nation. The reason I like to be alone is the freedom to do what I want, when I want. I also have the pleasure of avoiding all the politics large towns have to deal with such as land size, location and stupid arguments. I enjoy having complete control over my town and penalizing hermits isnt the way, however giving more to larger towns may be the answer.
    Seven_Devils likes this.
  12. Seven_Devils Member

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    I am actually one of those Hermits as well, if you checked in-game - so no, I don't dislike Hermits. You do bring up some good points though. And you don't need to be quite so aggressive. But let's redact what I said about "Hermits not having protection" because that's unfeasible entirely and a pointless argument that I simply worded extremely poorly. Considering this thread is specifically about Towny, I was referring to protection VIA Towny.

    So let's shift the focus of the discussion a bit.

    Hermits could, with my proposed changes (to the towny costs), still have their own town - alone - but it would be more costly to found and expand the town size (a side-effect of trying to combat the inactive towns issue that was brought up in the original post by Taraborn) - which helps the larger active towns in terms of expansion and location choice, helps the theoretically existing economy by keeping inflation down, and does at least encourage Hermits to use the /gps system &/or interact with other players to make some Zenni outside of what they naturally accrue by being logged in. It does not force them to do so, but it does encourage them to do so.

    So how do we entice people to join and stay in the larger towns for more than a day or two?


    Hmm..

    Ninjacrumpet has an extremely good point. Rather than punishing people that want to be Hermits, how about we focus on ways to improve the experience of being in a large town by adding incentive? Of course, we don't want to imbalance the theoretic economy, but there must be something that can be done. Perhaps we could have a daily allowance of free Lottery Tickets based on the size of your town? (very small reward potential, but still a reward)

    How about the proposals in my OP? I will admit that I do not know the complexity of implementing those features, but surely any suggestion is better than none. Perhaps increased inventory or chest space at higher level towns. There is an unfortunately finite number of ways to add incentive to larger towns without imbalancing the theoretic economy.
  13. linc7991 Master

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    For sure, players shouldn't be penalized for the way they play. Though, this is multiplayer, so participating in multiplayer should get some bonuses over playing alone. Seven Devils seems to have a good ideal of what would benefit the server's towns and economy. I would like to add, however. If we do keep towny protection for those single hermits, they should not be shown on the Charliecraft map. Having tons of flags for such small "towns", which are often one or two buildings, just adds clutter to the map. I also think that having a set radius as to how far a town can expand should exist too. This radius can be pretty generous, but the reason why I add this in, is to combat the towns that are literally just long strips of land. These just look awful on the map. Think of it like Civilization, cities can only claim so far out. That is, without making it a nation. (Which could also use a rework as there's no downsides to joining Interra immediately since it's the largest nation.)
    Seven_Devils likes this.
  14. ninjacrumpet_uk Iron Supporter

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    I partly agree with the map and flags idea but I think you should be able to toggle this due to people planning where to place their towns or expanding will need to know everyone else's location.

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